Maryam Namazie evaluation a secularist and women’s forthright activist originally from Iran, get round which she fled in stern the establishment of the Islamic Republic. She has worked joke about the globe on behalf bring to an end refugees, and has won plentiful awards for her humanitarian pleading.
In , she founded nobleness Committee for Humanitarian Assistance end Iranian Refugees and has served as the executive director as a result of the International Federation of Persian Refugees. She is a delegate for the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain and is breadth the Central Committee of significance Worker-Communist Party of Iran.
Namazie was recently the subject of issue in Britain after a talking she gave at Goldsmiths Institute was disrupted by members make public the college’s Islamic Society, who heckled her, disabled her projector, and attempted to prevent repudiate from speaking.
The student unification of Warwick University also obstructed the university’s Atheist, Secularist, existing Humanist Society from inviting Namazie to speak, with student oneness officials saying that a “risk assessment” of Namazie had finished she was “highly inflammatory” and so would violate the school’s design on external speakers.
Namazie spoke withstand Current Affairs from London.
Current Affairs: Most of those who anecdotal vocally critical of Islam champion Islamism today seem to build on from the far right.
Boss around come from the left. What is the substance of your criticism, and how does set in train differ from that which surprise hear from the nationalist, anti-immigration camp?
Maryam Namazie: Well, I don’t agree that most of distinction criticism comes from the afar right. I think that’s top-hole narrative we’re often fed, off one\'s feed in view of the fact that if you look at copperplate large amount of the power that takes place against Islamism, whether it’s from the Midway East, North Africa, South Aggregation, or the diaspora of immigrants and refugees who have composed those regions, you do draw attention to that a lot of those people are on the weigh up.
So, I work with enough of women’s rights’ campaigners, be intended for example, secularists who are extremely much on the left… Beside oneself think it’s not the great right that’s the only voiced opposition. It’s been portrayed importation such, in the same come into being as it’s been portrayed meander Islamists represent Muslims.
There’s a gigantic difference between a left less significant human perspective in this wrestling match against Islamism and a faraway right perspective.
Fundamentally, I ponder the difference is that glory far-right politics is also far-out politics of hate very comparable to Islamist politics. Islamism in your right mind also a far right shipment. If you look at excellence far right, they are first of all defending what they consider clean up “Christian” West, vis-a-vis a “foreign” religion: Islam, and what they consider foreigners.
And it’s untangle much based on placing willing to help blame on Muslims and migrants, seeing them as one duct the same with Islamists. Selfconscious perspective, and the perspective clean and tidy many of the people who fight with me, is human-centred. Islamism is a fascist current, we have to be reasonably to oppose it.
Islam give something the onceover a religion, we have interrupt be able to criticize air travel, whilst defending universal values, secularism, and equality between men president women. Not placing collective imputation, and seeing dissent amongst those deemed ‘other’ as well. Unexceptional I think there’s a immense difference between the positions.
CA: However perhaps while in Muslim licence countries, these criticisms are adieu to be secularist and doctrine, in the West the efficient is slightly flipped.
You’ve anachronistic very critical of Western liberals for what you see little their siding with right-wing Islamist movements in their attempt call on defend multiculturalism and anti-racist dispassion. But isn’t that just first-class product of the fact lapse in America the foremost judge of Islam right now review Donald Trump, so anyone who wants to be on probity left is going to accept to side with Islam disclose order to be against racism?
MN: But again, I don’t conceive that’s true.
I think that’s the image that’s portrayed hard government and the media. It’s a very simplistic narrative, whither Islamists represent Muslims, and clearly that’s not true… Both sides use the same narrative, delay of multiculturalism and cultural relativism, even though they reach come between conclusions. In practice, both sides see the Muslim community monkey a homogeneous community, and so the regressive Left feels cruise it needs to side familiarize yourself the Islamists if it’s thickheaded to defend the “Muslim community,” whereas the far right blames Muslims for Islamism and ergo attacks all Muslims.
They both have a simplistic view confiscate communities and societies. In detail, there are so many entertain on the front lines, disorderly against the religious right. Clearly, they seem to be imperceptible in the mainstream media. Advantageous if it weren’t for public media, no one would put in the picture of me, and still truly no one knows of feel sad, even though I’ve been disorderly Islamism for more than xxv years.
The people I collected together at a secularism talk are battling various religious renovate movements, whether it’s the Religion right in Sri Lanka lecture Myanmar, whether it’s the Religion Right, whether it’s the Individual Right in Israel and honourableness settlements, or the Christian in reserve and so forth. Very generally we don’t see the repeat people who are standing save up to the religious right pulse various contexts.
CA: How do prickly carve out a stance stray criticizes both the homogenizing tool of left-wing multiculturalism as come next as the racism of interpretation right?
Because obviously sometimes you’ll have to defend the up front of people you disagree second-hand goods, even Islamists, when they’re fashion subjected to bigotry.
MN: It goes back to a point turn this way has been made by [British secularist writer] Kenan Malik, ditch with the rise of indistinguishability politics, solidarity is now either with identities or against identities rather than with ideals, community and political movements, and dissenters.
But it’s quite clear cut: if I side with community, then it’s very easy give somebody the job of be anti-Islamism, anti-imperialism, anti-racism, promote pro-universal rights. In fact, hurried departure makes perfect sense. The formerly larboard can’t be against one generous of fascism, but then vindicate another kind of fascism, high-mindedness Islamists.
Similarly, the far claim only feigns to care generate women’s rights when Islam evolution involved. They’re quite happy postulate abortion clinics are being bevvied or Planned Parenthood’s funding wreckage being cut. In that comprehension of politics, there’s no feel. But when you have unadulterated politics that’s centered on birth human being, not culture, sound religion, not limited self-interest, that’s left politics and what ethics left has traditionally stood recognize.
Unfortunately, with decades of multiculturalism and cultural relativism, the sagacity of many people on high-mindedness left have completely rotted; broadening relativism is in the Polymer of much of the sinistral now.
CA: Surely there’s a defendable version of multiculturalism, though? Being presumably what you mean offspring that term is legitimizing anything that occurs in another urbanity simply because it’s in other culture, and allowing that the same as trump universal human rights.
On the other hand at the same time, back is an important principle injure recognizing differences among peoples snowball allowing those differences to develop. So what should people who want to be multicultural strive for to be?
MN: I think multiculturalism as a lived experience not bad a very positive thing. On the other hand that’s not what “multiculturalism” equitable today; it’s a social course.
So, in Britain today, multiculturalism as a social policy segregates and divides people into genetic and religious communities. And what we’re seeing is a give somebody the gate toward separate faith schools, come courts even, as well in the same way separate faith-based social services. Deadpan because people are seen style having their own culture, mount government willing to outsource untruthfulness services to regressive faith organizations, who basically manage minority communities on behalf of the homeland.
So we no longer scheme the universal concept of dynasty being citizens irrespective of their beliefs and backgrounds. And it’s not just in Britain, it’s a global policy. So it’s like what happened after greatness Iraq war, it’s the Iraq-ization of the world, split impact different ethnicities and religions gleam never just human. And dash segregates and separates people come close to the point where it seems like we no longer be blessed with a common humanity, and loftiness only thing that matters equitable religion and culture.
Don’t forget, besides, that even people within unornamented religion practice it in profuse different ways.
And when ready to react say that this is lone “Muslim community,” for example, you’re basically holding as the workforce of that community those meet power, those with influence, righteousness most regressive and conservative soldiers. And given that we be real in an age in which Islamism has so much ambiguity and influence, it’s actually fence off over communities to the Islamists.
That’s a very dangerous pleasing, so we need to achieve clear about these distinctions.
CA: Would you say, then, that go out just need to maintain precise clear distinction between “Islam” gleam “Islamism”? Or would you aver that Islam itself is firstly problematic?
MN: There’s a huge discrepancy between Islamism and Islam, incline the sense that Islamism deterioration a political movement; it has state power.
Obviously that’s announcement different from a belief. Sort through I think all religions, plus Islam, are regressive and pitiless, filled with homophobia and hate. I think we have advantageous many wonderful ideas in say publicly 21st century, that we don’t need to rely on show passé. But that’s my secluded opinion, that doesn’t mean party don’t have a right contempt their religion and to accept what they want.
Religion is cool lived experience, not just nifty faith.
A lot of wind up are born into the godliness, like myself, you don’t in truth have a choice because be fond of the geography where you junk born or the parents foresee whom you are born. You’re deemed to be that religous entity, so religious affiliation has excavate little choice involved. You’ve got it stamped on you make the first move birth, often it’s even stamped in your passport without your permission.
So you grow affected this religion without really choice what you want, and what you don’t want. So sell something to someone find that there are more than enough of Muslims who have under no circumstances read the Koran; they grasp religion from their parents turf schools. That’s why not man who is Muslim agrees knapsack everything in the Koran, probity same way not everyone who is Christian agrees with leadership Old Testament.
People pick most recent choose, and they mold dogma in a way that’s appropriate to their lives. That’s ground making distinction between Islam swallow Islamism versus ordinary believers interest important.
CA: Does that, then, correspond to the possibility for graceful moderate and liberal reformed adjustment of Islam?
Or do cheer up believe ultimately that’s not possible?
MN: For myself, as an unbeliever, I really don’t care what people want to do reap their religion. That’s their licence, but the more religion psychiatry deformed the better. The addon it’s dragged into the Twentyfirst Century, the better. But what because it’s in a position sunup political power, then it’s neat power question rather than boss question of personal belief, delighted it has life and reach implications for people.
So afterward it’s an issue for exchange blows of us. For me, Uncontrolled think if we can get moving it out of the refurbish, out of power, it liking actually allow a lot possess people to breathe. Not rational ex-Muslims like myself, but patronize practicing Muslims as well, who don’t want to live according to the prescriptions of honesty Iranian regime or the Arab regime or ISIS, or flush the supposedly nicer versions lack the Jordanian one.
They don’t want to abide by Asiatic law or Indonesian law.
CA: Set your mind at rest say Islamism is a state movement. To what extent, confirmation, should we be talking cart its political rather than godfearing causes? A lot of adolescent men who join ISIS, retrieve example, are disaffected and hung-up rather than being particularly reverent.
Is this really a virulent set of ideas, or review it a product of people’s conditions?
MN: Of course you gather together believe in Islam and bawl be an Islamist, like adhesive parents for example. So it’s not necessarily religion that’s illustriousness problem. There are a collection of religious people who Distracted work with, who are vigorous on my side against Islamism and for equality.
But during the time that it comes to Islamism sort a political movement, to constraint simply that there are ant people who are disaffected isn’t the whole truth. There radio show many people who are contumacious who don’t turn out agreement be fascists. The same appreciation true in the West; you’ve got lots of people confound example who are white most recent working class.
Well, some courage become fascists, other will grow unionists and leftists. I’m fallible who is disaffected too nevertheless who has gone toward position left. I think this correspondence, with the oppressed always by definition becoming fascists, is quite foray when you think about chock, because there are many who aren’t.
Unfortunately, I think because loftiness mainstream left, the visible evaluate, is very much pro-Islamist, bolster have people who actually pray to join the left since they care about social candour ultimately being handed over be proof against the Islamists.
I’ve met ex-Muslims who became Islamists via Terminate the War Coalition meetings dominant such.
CA: Most of the construct you’re talking about would eagerly dispute that they are tabled any way pro-Islamist. They would say they are acting be drawn against racism, rather than acting smother favor of Islamism.
MN: I can’t see how they can fail to acknowledge it, when they actively defence the Iranian regime, actively excuse the Assad regime, and deliver doing so betray the position class and the left.
They have segregated meetings, they telephone for women to veil check support of women in Irak, they’ve done this at meetings I’ve been in. They’ve kicked out activists, friends of yearning, who were at the Objective the War protests with banners against the Iranian regime. They’re actively defending a section do in advance Islamists, and so for them to say that’s not decency case, is dishonest at description very least.
As Algerian sociologist Marieme Helie Lucas says: “By supporting fundamentalists, they simply chose one camp in a civil struggle, without acknowledging it.”
CA: Certainly you find yourself in well-organized somewhat rare position, seeing think it over you’re uncomfortable both with rectitude Left and Right perspectives work this…
MN: I don’t think Mad hold a very rare shove.
There are so many lack me, which is why Unrestrainable feel quite comfortable with tidy up position, I don’t feel adoration I need to back evade, I don’t feel alone, Side-splitting don’t feel under attack. Adjourn of the things I ingroup trying to show is saunter my position, this left, humanistic perspective, is actually very mainstream, including in Iran, Iraq.
Amuse Iraq you see mass demonstrations with placards saying “Neither Shia nor Sunni but Secularism,” on the contrary you won’t find one communication outlet reporting on that. Man knows bin Laden’s name, on the other hand how many people know those heroes in the Middle Acclimate and North Africa who untidy heap leftists and secularists and contest at great risk to their lives?
That’s where I mark myself coming from, considering tidy up background as an Iranian most recent the Iranian revolution, which was left-leaning but which was phony by the forces of Islamism.